Firstly, I tried to garner information from published sources - in particular, Brian Morrison's 'First Generation DMU' book, and our Railcar site, and compared them side-by-side and class-by-class. The results are shown below.

As is well known, generally, there were TWO shades of green for DMU use. Initially a lighter malachite green gave way to a darker brunswick green in the late fifties. Stuart Mackay points out that this 'rule' is far from universal, and the table above bears testimony to this.

What is almost certainly true is that within the brunswick green category (which I presume includes 'loco green', there were class-to-class variation (and probably within a class). There may have been class-to-class variation in the malachite green, but that was not the area of my interest.

A further difficulty relating to brunswick green is the general perception of brunswick green. This is of a rather browny, olive, or bronzy green - rather 'country' and allied to the well-known Land Rover type green. It is also perceived to be that carried by GWR locos, and, I suspect slightly modified, by BR passenger locos. This is certainly wrong for GWR engines as the official name was mid-chrome green. Also, within the BS381c spec. there are several increasingly dark brunswicks, but these are undoubtedly NOT brownish or Land Rover-ish'-indeed the darkest, namely BS381c227 'Dark Brunswick Green' looks, from, memory, remarkably like BR(S)Stock Green and is therefore more allied to Southern Malachite! I have noted in earlier e-mail correspondence that BS381c is the only spec. that specifically names its colours. To sum up, 'brunswick green' by standard is NOT what is generally perceived as brunswick green.

The following colours were assessed against fragments uncovered inside a door jamb from my 117 -and recognising that the original colour may have altered somewhat, due to age and chemical decomposition.

At present I am veering towards the BS381c224 solution. This is the slightly 'browner'colour than the consensus, but does appear to match my fragment most closely -matching has been confirmed by at least six people of both sexes. (Peter Forbes has said that ICI have statistical evidence of males having better colour acuity) there are however other justifications for this choice.

It is the closest match to the fragment I have. Initially I was unhappy with the match as the 224 brushout was of very high gloss, however after matting it down by rubbing it with 'Ajax' scouring liquid the match appears very close indeed. The other shades were also 'matted' for the purpose of comparison, but gave poor matches.

I have heard conflicting reports about where 117 were built - Pressed Steel, Linley, Paisley, Scotland (the most popular report) , but also Pressed Steel, West Bromwich, B'ham. (or at least somewhere in Birmingham beginning with 'B' - Bordesley?, Broad Heath?). But wasn't West Brom where Land Rovers were built, and weren't Pressed Steel road vehicle body suppliers? If so, you can imagine the dialogue that went between the Kremlin at Marylebone and Pressed Steel 'Paint it Brunswick', 'Ah! yes, that's what we use for Land Rovers' - and so BLMC HCC is BS381c244.

The BS381c224 was obtained through my local supplier Industrial Paint Supplies, of Rogerstone. Their supplier is the Shipley Paint Company who market this range of paint under the Manor label. It is known as 'p-type', that is polyurethane loaded alkyd resin paint for spraying. I brush it. If brushed, it needs brushing out well or it will run. It covers very well, but will bloom badly if overbrushed onto a half-dry underlayer. It is VERY resistant to skinning in the tin, though the blue and yellow pigments tend to separate in the tin so good stirring is essential. It is less than 2/3 price of Williamsons. It has a high gloss - possibly TOO glossy, but no doubt the wind at Blaenavon will do a good sand-blasting the finish on the paintwork before TOO long.

At present, then, the choice is BS381c244, I await the brush-out from Chris Bull, though I doubt whether that will change things. In any case all work is done out of doors 1250ft up a mountain in open moorland, so painting will be deferred till the better weather comes (ie when the rain is warmer!), meanwhile there's plenty to do inside….

There have been developments!

Peter Forbes very kindly sent me some large brushouts (at least a foot square) of 'his' Dulux 'Deep Brunswick Green'
7514 G 20 Y alongside Phoenix Precision Paints P119 'Post 1954 (sic!) DMU green'. It is astonishing how much easier it is to make a comparison if the brushout areas are LARGE. The P119 immediately struck me as being 'right', it is very dark and just a little less brown than BS381c224. It is dfficult to compare the two with my rather small fragment, but the P119 JUST has the edge. Immediately I got onto Phoenix Precision. They assert:
(a) they have the original BR sample plates to which their paint is accurately matched
(b) their paint is 'coach enamel' and is NOT polyurethane loaded, which they claim gives flexibility and is therefore less likely to 'craze'. It is slightly less glossy (no problem for me), and tends to skin (a bit of a nuisance, but I can live with it).
(c) That BS381c224 IS Land Rover Green

The downside is the price - £72 for the first 5 litre tin, dropping to £65 for each subsequent tin - and this excludes VAT and carriage. Too much for a superannuated physicist/ engineer, so back to my endlessly patient Industrial Paint Services, who will match the P119 brushout at £31 per 5 litres for modified alkyd resin without polyurethane or £38 with polyurethane. Carriage is not a problem, and I think I can just manage the VAT on £31 ! Response by IPS to the polyurethane gives crazing theory 'Bollocks - it crazes when over-applied' I am going over to IPS this week to inspect the made-up sample (which they tell me will not match any standard), to order 15 litres / 3 gallons (which will DO three of the six sides)

Also had an email from Jim Poor at Swindon and Cricklade with the Gloucester 119 set. He has been recommended Akzo-Nobel RS90 - whatever that is. Is this the ex- Mason's 2206 ? We shall see, Jim has promised me a brush out

Went to Industrial Paint Services in Rogerstone near Newport today and picked up two gallons (ie 2 x 5 litres) of 'John Down B2' as it will be henceforth known. A perfect match to P119 so far as I am concerned. I intend in the next week or so to get some trial tins of DMU green from every MODEL manufacturer (eg Humbrol and Railmatch), and compare them, just to double check the P119 /B2. As soon as the weather warms up, trial applications will be made on the unit. Stay tuned!